Unpacking DEI: From Political Battleground to Business Innovation

00:00:05 - Courthney Russell Jr
When you have a whole acronym that combines race, culture, ethnicity, elevation, the illusion of helping others, and we can make money on it, that's a dangerous place to be, because now it can lay victim for exploitation. 

Welcome, fam. This is Courtney Russell junior, and I'm here with my co host, Emily Braucher.

00:00:30 - Emily Braucher
Welcome to Humanize.

00:00:31 - Courthney Russell Jr
We are two Americans with totally different backgrounds and life experiences.

00:00:36 - Emily Braucher
We're coming together on this podcast to dive right at the heart of the three things that shut down tough conversations about race, culture, power, and ego.

00:00:45 - Courthney Russell Jr
The stories you are about to hear are meant to humanize those deeply involved in social justice. Welcome to the work, y'all. Let's get it. What's going on, humanized family? Today we're gonna do another mini episode, little 1015 minutes thing to get you guys thinking. Be in the conversation. Right now, we're gonna talk about DEi and its effects of just culture and what's going on and how it is used and or misused for certain things and to assist with certain objectives. So, Emily, let's get into it and start this conversation up so we can.

00:01:25 - Emily Braucher
Get these people thinking if you're just joining human eyes. So the work that. That I do through my business, which is refresh communication, is all about diversity, equity, and inclusion. So I work with corporations on this and been doing it for about 15 years. So I've seen a lot of different trends with the term diversity, equity, and inclusion. DEI. And there's DEIj, DEI, there's Jedi. There's so many different terms, but they're all pointing towards the same thing. But here's what I'm seeing, and I think that would be interesting to discuss with you. Courtney, today is just the way that this term has become more like a swear, basically, and the anti DEI movement is using it to describe people. So two ways that I'm seeing this happening recently, and it's mainly coming from the right, is the political right. So, back when this boat was questioned, there was an immediate response by the mayor of Baltimore, who was black. And so then all of a sudden, the right was talking about the DEI mayor. And then now that there's some questions with Biden and his ability to run for president, the right is starting to bubble up with this idea of calling Kamala the DEI president. And so there's a question, because, to me, DEI means working to create equity in spaces so that people can all have equal access, equal opportunity, so that people can feel safe to speak up without repercussion. And that's not really how this term is being used at the moment. So what. What do you think the term DEI president, what is that meaning? What is it trying to say?

00:03:26 - Courthney Russell Jr
You see, the thing about capitalism and power, it kind of muddies a lot of things, and it does muddy a lot of things. It makes it so that something that could have been good now starts to be something that's profitable and. Or a power grab, you know, and that's just how. How invasive capitalism is. At the beginning, when DEI became this trendy thing, it was like you said, all about making sure that everyone was seen, everyone was at the table, everyone could be, their voices could be heard. Now it's almost like if you say somebody's woke. If you say that, if you ramp DEI, people, like, roll their eyes, because it's a thing that individuals have codified and made to feel as though I can make money on this issue as long as I put DEI in the conversation. People a are either going to use it as something like, oh, we're diverse now. Listen, we have a DEI person. We have a DEI course. We have a DEI class. We are involved in DEI work. Whether or not they are. It just looks good for paperwork, which is going to possibly get more funding, possibly get more likes. It's just, for me, this whole DEI situation has been misused and taken away from what it could be doing, which is elevation of individuals who are marginalized. It's just like when you talked about affirmative action, right? And, like, we all know, it started to make sure that everyone could get, like, education, you know? And then some people started to say people who weren't worthy to do this and that, and it just transformed. And so it's very difficult to keep something that has good intentions pure in a world that everyone, like, is steeped either in poverty and or is trying to make a buck, because poverty is big business. And so if individuals like poverty and race and culture, that's all big business. And so when you have a whole acronym that combines race, culture, ethnicity, elevation, the illusion of helping others, and we can make money on it, that's a dangerous place to be, because now it can lay victim for exploitation. And that's what I think DEI, unfortunately, we're in a world in a place where it is a great place for individuals who wish to misuse it can do so. So when you talk about the DEI president, it's like, it's almost an insult. It is. They're using it as an insult to say, like, they're not gonna talk about any issues. They just gonna focus on stuff that's for those people, or we're not going to be equal. It's just going to be spending a lot of time on race when race doesn't matter anymore. You know what I mean? So why would you vote for someone who's not a president for everyone instead of voting for someone who is going to make sure we address issues? And obviously, that's not a good argument because race isn't everything. And so, like, you talk about, but people feel like, let's separate that. And so when you say a DEI president, it's a form of, like we talked about last week, like, a black duh duh, a white duh duh duh. You almost put in a color on the presidency, as if Kamala will only fight for people that are different from the majority or the upper class or white people.

00:07:26 - Emily Braucher
Yeah, I guess I see it a little bit differently in that, like, not so much the DEI president would be someone who would get into office and just focus on issues of DEi, but I see it more as actually a much more racist term that they're using. So it's like a clouded racist term. It's like a new way of saying, let's say the n word or something. Because what, what I see them trying to say is, she would only be there because of DEI, so she would only be there because she's not, like, basically they're saying, like, a person of color wouldn't be smart enough on their own, have the credentials on their own in order to get there. So they must only be there because of DEI, because of what they would call, like, quota filling and affirmative action, which is not how I see DEI at all. I would never tell a client to create quotas now. And we can't talk about people like that. We're talking about dignity. And so there I see them misappropriating the term entirely to and basically saying veiled racist comments. So they're taking a term that's used by the left, and they're throwing it in and saying like this. You know, the assumption is Kamala would not be there if she wasn't a. A woman and a person of color if she didn't have people fighting for equity. So that's how I see it, like, being super problematic, that it's actually in headlines right now, because what it's trying to say is actually quite racist.

00:09:09 - Courthney Russell Jr
I agree with you. It's just like education. When we were told that we couldn't go to school because of the color of our skin, affirmative action was created to allow us to go to schools. And then you have individuals who, when we get there, this says you couldn't go to school because of the color. You weren't smart enough to get here. Only the color of your skin is the reason why you go to Yale or go to Harvard. Right, right. So it's kind of like what you're saying right now with the DEI thing. That's why I was making that comparison, because it feels the same way. You're saying that Kamala couldn't be president because. Not because of her credentials versus only because she can only become president because she's black. If that's why she is a DEI president. I mean, it's gaslighting. It's gaslighting. You know what I mean?

00:09:57 - Emily Braucher
It's gaslighting. And it's moving through some incredible ingrained assumptions about white people and education and experience. I mean, even this whole. There's a narrative that you hear a lot about how right now it's harder to get a job as a white man. It's just a more challenging thing because people are not. There's kind of dime dozen and that people of color are, quote, taking our jobs. And it's a super problematic assumption that people are throwing around, and I don't think people are realizing just how deeply ingrained racist the thinking is beyond that. Is that why would it be. Why would it be that person's job versus this person's job? The entitlement to a job, the entitlement to a whole. What is it called? A group of jobs, a set of jobs being. And we come back to last week's episode, white jobs. Right?

00:11:05 - Courthney Russell Jr
Yeah. Yeah. So are you saying white jobs? Not you, but are people saying white jobs are jobs that can better give us a quality of life where our families can benefit and we can enjoy our black jobs, the jobs that are going to keep us in poverty? What is. You know what I'm saying? Like, what are you trying to say? You know, so don't make it seem as though we're not saying what we're saying. If you're saying a DEI president, what exactly are you trying to say?

00:11:39 - Emily Braucher
Like, yeah, we're gonna get back to the episode in just a moment, but we wanted to give a quick shout out to our supporters on Patreon, as well as our supporters who have bought our merch from our website. Our podcast is principally sustained and propelled by listeners like you, and we wanted to make sure you knew how to get on that train. So to support us on Patreon, please go to the Patreon page and look up the Humanized podcast. There we have some exclusive content that we haven't released to the wider public, as well as ways to engage with the community. And if you want to check out some of the humanized merch, the t shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, and different things, go to our website, thehumanizedpodcast.com, and select shop at the top. And all of that support that we receive financially goes directly to our amazing editing team and making sure we're bringing you the highest quality content you can get. Thank you. And let's go back to the episode. Like, I can't talk to the headline. I can't talk to any of these people. But it's. It's so confusing. Cause I'd wanna sit that person down and be like, yeah, what are you trying to say? Let's really break this apart. Because I actually don't think that a lot of those people would sit there and get to that point of saying something. They don't wanna be a bad person. Right? Most people don't wanna be called a bad person. And people are getting caught up in saying these things. And I guess that's one of my motivations of doing a podcast on this topic, is don't be one of those people that get caught up in saying these things. Cause you don't know what you're saying. I don't think that people really know what they're saying. They are not seeing how intensely the racial undertones and assumptions about people's roles in society are.

00:13:36 - Courthney Russell Jr
The thing about power is you gotta understand what you're willing to sacrifice. Some people are willing to sacrifice morals and understanding for power and money, and so they could understand exactly what they're saying and are willing to say, you know, what it is. What it is. Just like when you get people that say, slavery was a choice and just leave it there, or, you know, me. Or just say, like, they are willing to say, I knew. I know this is going to be a bad thing, some of them, and be like, all right, I'm willing to make that sacrifice for money and fame and power. All right, cool. Then it's some people who have just been raised to think a certain way. And until we have situations like the human Eyes podcast or other conversations or other perspective challenging venues and ways of being, they're gonna continue to live in their bubble of think tank. I mean, just the way they think. So it could be a lot of differing variables as to why people say things like this. And we just have to continue to do what we do because we don't know where they stand. We could talk to someone who was a KKK member very strongly. We say the right thing, and now it's all like, I'm a huge activist for individuals and try to elevate marginalized people. You just never know. You just never know.

00:15:09 - Emily Braucher
I think it would be helpful for us to spend the last couple minutes just maybe looking at, like, what to further clarify this term of DEI in, like, the light of people doing good work. I'm curious. Yes, there's, like, super problematic pieces of how DEI is getting wrapped into capitalism, basically because businesses aren't willing to spend money on what is morally just, which is where the DEI movement began with, like, you know, in the sixties and civil rights movement. It's like, this is the morally just thing to do, but businesses are not willing to spend money on that. So we've had to create the business case and connect it to innovation and productivity in these things. And so I'm curious, what, in your experience, like, if you have any stories, it'd be great. What does DEI look like at its best within an organization?

00:16:11 - Courthney Russell Jr
I don't have any real stories like that because I, like. I just know that DEi, by definition, just the acronym, is diversity, equity, and inclusion. And if I like to keep things simple, you know, if you address all of those terms, your organization will be powerful and it'll be more profitable, right?

00:16:38 - Emily Braucher
Why will it be powerful and profitable?

00:16:40 - Courthney Russell Jr
Because if you have diversity, you just don't have diversity of skin color. You have diversity of thought. Right? And so if you have a diversity of thought, you can. You will be challenged in ways that will bring and also will bring different perspectives to the table, you know? And so diversity, it's just not about, I'm diverse because I'm black. Humanized podcast is diverse because it's hosted by a black and a white person. That's not the only tenet of diversity in my mind. We, me and you both have differing opinions, and we're not afraid to challenge each other in those opinions. So there's diversity of thought as well. And so if you brought it to a company that's powerful, equity is in the business. Like, you would have things that everyone would need. It wouldn't be equal. It would be something that everyone needs there. For example, if you are a mother, there will be a situation there to take care of your kids or, like, daycare for your children or maternity leave. If you're a black person and you have locks, there's a place where you get your hair done there's a place where you can have just affinity groups or alliance time with other individuals. See, you're getting what you need to thrive at the business so that you can continue to grow said business. And you could be excited to work. Cause if you're excited to go to work, you're excited to make it grow. You're excited to keep it moving and growing, because it's giving you, like, life, it's giving you what you need. And inclusion is just making sure that everyone in your company feels as though they're seen. You know what I mean? So, like, if we have a situation where we celebrate parties and we celebrate, I mean, in South park, but you celebrate, like, cultural significant things. Everyone. We do the work of figuring out everyone from great jewish holidays, Juneteenth, API month. Like, you really do the work to make sure that everyone is seen, everyone's included. And that's why if you just break that word down and create a company that addresses all of that, that company would be so profitable. Like, it would be unheard of. It'll be the blueprint of what a company should be. And the bottom line will still be met because people are so excited when people buy into a system, they can't have it fail, because now it's a part of their life. But if you're just going to work and being like, I'm just going to work, you're already looking for a new job. And the minute something else looks good, that's why turnover is so high. You know what I mean? And so that's how I will be running what my business is like from a DeI lens. Like, what do I need to do to make sure a. The bottom line is met? How will the bottom line be met, Courtney? By making sure that DEI is at the center of everything we do, whether it's a photography, whether it's clothing, whether it's fashion, what is needed to be met to make sure that all that's done. And that's crazy what you can do with that, right?

00:20:10 - Emily Braucher
And so with that end vision in sight in terms of promoting more people of color and women and people with different sexual orientations and gender orientations and genders, promoting them through it. Isn't this piece around, let's have a quota and get someone, you know, change the criteria? The question changes and criterias expand into who do we need in this position so that the people within the organization are seen and represented? How do. Who do we need in this position so that we can, you know, access the latino market? Like, you know, we need. We need. That's a great market to tap into. So we, so I feel like that criteria piece is a really important, demystifying piece of DEi. It's not about, it was at one point in the seventies about percentages. Like, we want to have this many percentage of people of color. But now the conversation has evolved a lot into, let's think, let's be smarter business folks. I work with corporations, so I'm like, that perspective. Let's be smarter about who we're hiring so that we can achieve our goals. And I just. I hope our listeners can, can walk away with just some new thoughts around talking about this within their organizations, whether it's higher ed or nonprofits, because the more conservative people are coming, this is the current backlash is using DEi as a racial slur. And I think most likely what's going to come out of it is the new evolution of the term we use, which is what's happened several times, from sensitivity trainings to affirmative action to t groups, diversity trainings to inclusion trainings to diversity equity, inclusion training. So we'll probably have a new evolution coming up here in a couple years, but the main undertone will stay the same, which is the vision that you just spelled out.

00:22:18 - Courthney Russell Jr
Yeah.

00:22:19 - Emily Braucher
So I hope we've done a little demystifying of DEI today. It's not, you know, always a straightforward thing, but I appreciate hearing your vision and your perspective.

00:22:31 - Courthney Russell Jr
Appreciate that.

00:22:33 - Emily Braucher
Yeah. So hopefully this, our little mini has been a little thought provoking.

00:22:38 - Courthney Russell Jr
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:39 - Emily Braucher
That's all we want. We don't. We don't hold the truths. We just, you know, explore different perspectives.

00:22:45 - Courthney Russell Jr
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. Appreciate you. Peace.

00:22:50 - Emily Braucher
Thank you. Bye. Thanks for joining us on this episode of human eyes. Please remember to like and subscribe to our, our podcast so you don't miss an episode. Join us on Instagram or Facebook to continue this conversation at thehumanizedpodcast.

00:23:08 - Courthney Russell Jr
Let us know if you want to learn more about the professional trainings we offer, and, of course, tune in next time as we continue the work. Thank you and much love.